Spinning Wing Decoys-Ban or not?

[XR-2 Fan]

I don't know if this has been discussed lately, but I've heard alot of talk about people pushing for a nation wide ban on spinning wing decoys. What do ya'll think? Why or why not? I for one would support the ban, what's your thoughts?

[Ryan Kleinschmidt]

This debate can get ugly. Personally, I could care less either way. For us, some days they work and some days we pull them and then the shooting picks up. I own one and will use it once and awhile as long as its legal. If they ban them, it will not bother me one bit. Being in the right spot will be more helpfull than any spinner ever could!! Scout, scout, scout, and scout some more!!

[XR-2 Fan]

Commander,

I agree. I think I'm just tired of trying to figure out what days they work and what days they don't to be honest!!!

[Jeff Gudenkauf]

fasten your seatbelts...

[Nick James]

aaahhhh gude, take a deep breath

[Jeremy DeVries]

I believe that OVERALL, hutners put more birds in our bags WITH THEM. However, I have seen them flare a good number of ducks as well. Particularily it helps guys who DON'T scout, it helps guys who AREN"T on the "X", it helps in early season, it helps hunters who can't call, it helps a poor spread of decoys, and man is it deadly at times. I've watched teal try to literally hit the thing in the air. I've also watched late season mallards BALE OUT COMPLETELY as soon as they see it. But I'm with you guys, if they ban them or not, I will still go hunting.

[XR-2 Fan]

Riverrock,
I think you just read my mind. The more I think about it I'm leaning more towards wishing the ban would come through. I think it MIGHT help a little with hunting pressure, and would help me to concentrate more on exact spot, decoy spreads, calling ect, ect, which I love to do and is the most fun anyway IMO.

[greenfever12]

Let me throw my amatuer 2 cents in,

I would totally support a ban. For one main reason: they work. They work real well. Now don't get me wrong, there are just as many days when they don't do damn thing. but there have been several times where I've been on the "X" and have a lot birds pulled from us by guys who have one. Then there's the issue of public land...I hate to say it but it's gotten to the point in some places where you need them to compete. I've seen guys have 5 of them on stakes 10 feet in the air...and the ducks just love it. Now i think this is getting a little extreme. Now do i have one, yes, do i use it, yes. But i think anyone can turn on a switch, where as it takes more skill to scout and call. I'm kind of rambling here but I enjoy a little bit more of back to basics hunting. This is an interesting issue, please let me know if you disagree with me.

[Patrice Picard]

Hunting pressure in Quebec is really lower than in the States where waterfowling is a real culture.

However, there's a big lost of effectiveness compare to about five years ago when they were introduced on the Quebec market.

The birds definitely learned to adjust themselves to these decoys and I'm really curious to see how long it's gonna take before the effectiveness issue experienced in the States reach que upper north of the continent.

MY CANADIAN TWO CENTS! hi hi hi

[Cut em]

I support a ban on electronic means across the board(except for Snow geese)

The things work at putting more birds on the strap over all thoughout the season. They work just as good on the last day on new birds than they do early season on new birds. Stale educated birds are stale educasted birds robo or no.

The backlash of making ducks such easy targets in crowded high pressure ares is when your flyway biologists and DNR's start proposing a reduction in season days and bag limit as a result of their impact...loss of hunting opportunity for all regaurdless if you use em or not. I just don't see any other reason for such a proposal to reduce harvest with the weather and conditions we've had in recent years. I could be wrong. Just goin with the obvious.

For me it comes down to electronic means, I'm glad we can't use e-callers on ducks and geese and have to rely on good callin. Robos are the decoy counterpart to the electrionic unfair advantage that's outlawed with the e-callers. That's just me and the reason I dislike them and would like to see them outlawed.

Untill then do what's legal and have a good time.

[Duckslayercam]

This debate can get ugly. Personally, I could care less either way. For us, some days they work and some days we pull them and then the shooting picks up. I own one and will use it once and awhile as long as its legal. If they ban them, it will not bother me one bit. Being in the right spot will be more helpfull than any spinner ever could!! Scout, scout, scout, and scout some more!!

I'll second that...some days they work for us and some days they do not.

Now as far as for banning them i could also care less. It doesn't bother me at all.

[Mark Wardlaw]

I have been conducting an unofficial survey over the last few seasons on the use of the Spinning Wing decoy. Let's get away from the do they work or not question. The question I would like to pose to the forum is " Who supports the use of the spinning wing decoy"? It seems that I have failed to contact any supporters of the spinners. Could those who strongly support and advocate the use of the spinning wing decoys please stand up?

[Jeff Gudenkauf]

<crickets>

[Jonathan Rice]

To be 100% honest I would hate to see them be banned. I think that there are some guys who don't have the best spot, calling skills, decoys,etc and the mojo's really seem to help. We wont go duck hunting without out em. We have used them in spreads of a doz. 20 yr. old mallard floaters to spreads of 500 duck floaters and they seem to always pull birds for us. But I do feel they should put a restriction on the number you can use, but thats just my opinion.

[goetler]

I think that if someone needs them because they can't call that well, they need to practice more. I have two that I very rarly use unless there are a bunch of other guys using them, but a lot of the time I don't and do better than them. All the water that I hunt in MN is public. There are days when I get out to a spot 4 hours before shooting time to get the good spot and I'm the 6th boat there. But I seem to be the first one to leave even after I got the 6th best spot. I would like to see them outlawed. Like some of the others stated there are guys that have 5-8 out at a time. I don't have that kind of money and if I did I would buy more GHG DECOYS. All you need is life-like decoys and learn how to call. That is how I learned how 29 years ago when I went duck hunting for the first time. And all we had were 6 old hard plastic decoys and dad had an old olt call that I never heard him use and we shot plenty of ducks. Sorry hope this wasn't too long winded.
Just my $0.02 worth.:D

[CRIPLE CUTTER]

I for one would not like to see them band. i think i shoot more ducks because the people around me use them. i hunted a lot on the Saginaw bay were their was a lot of competition. i watched duck after duck shy away from robo duck decoys. i would use 100 or so decoys and i would shoot limits way before most people with the robos. every were you would look you see spinning wings.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Rhett Riddle]

Get rid of them. Duck hunting shouldnt be made easier for those who aren't good at it. You should strive to learn how to hunt ducks, find the better spots, and improve your hunting. Not get a spinning wing and let it help you kill ducks.

[disco duck]

keep em, then the bad hunters use em, the ducks learn that a mojo is bad, and they come to the rigs without a spinning wing, and right into our pellets:D

[banned06]

my vote goes toward the ban as well! because for how much just one of those costs you could have some decent decoys i mean for 30 bucks you can have a dozen hotbuy decoys which in my opinion are very good decoy for the money! but what i think it boiles down to is that people today are getting lazy, case in point shooting a rifle now a days is alot easier with the new bushnell scope?! i say ban em

[Dwayne Padgett]

Ban them ! Put the hunt back in the "hunters" hands. Make hunters use their skill like scouting, decoy placement,calling and concealment.

[headhunter]

I started a thread on this once and it turned into a war, so hows the weather in your area?

[Bill Cooksey]

The question can certainly inspire some heated debate. That being said, my thoughts are contained in my signature.

Bill

[Jeremy DeVries]

LOL LOL LOL

That cracks me up. How true it is>>>>>>>

[Atlantic Flyway Gundogs]

Great quote bill.

I know up here is PEI we shoot alot of black ducks at night coming into our big salt marshes. We used to follow the runs up and get to the X.......set out the decoys and have great shoots.

We experimented last year by taking only two Robo's in to the marshes.........no decoys and set the Robos up in potholes.

Words cannot desribe how good they work. Blacks are famous for coming before legal time or after legal time and at night you have a very small window of opportunity to get at them............this method put our numbers up almost 20% from the year before....it really is deadly!

Should they be banned..............certainly!

If you do your work by scouting,hiding,decoys etc.........you will still shoot enough birds............just my two cents.

It is fun and amazing to watch though...............the greenwings have bumped the Robos several times and one time a greenwing ran smack into the pole.............dropped to the ground......took a few steps and flew away.

One of the funniest things I have ever seen.......both dogs and hunteres just looked at each other like "what the hell just happened".


Paul

[SMIGRATOR]

I to would have to say that it dont matter either way, if we use them, we only use them for the first 30 min in the am, then they get pulled. I like it when all the guys hunting around me have them out and the birds break the neck coming into my decoys, most of the time we are the ones leaving off the spot first and with a full limit.

[Jimimc]

Get rid of them. Duck hunting shouldnt be made easier for those who aren't good at it. You should strive to learn how to hunt ducks, find the better spots, and improve your hunting. Not get a spinning wing and let it help you kill ducks.

Total Agreement with this statement. "The Lazy Man Shall Not Be Rewarded Equally"

[widgeon05]

There are alot of guys in my area that use spinners and to be quite frank it makes it harder to use em. I have a couple of my own and by the middle of the season the ducks start to get warry of em. As far as the local feds banning them I really dont see how they are an unfair advantage. The ducks are pretty smart. Happy Hunting:D

[Jason Zerrer]

Ban 'em.

[Josh Carda]

personally i dont own one....but my friend does. We used it everyday we hunted one day it killed ducks like there was no tommrow. Teal where coming into our face with the mojo mallard and once they realized it was landing they were like oh crap...bam. As far as banning them goes, i think using more water motion would be better. Get the decoys on the water to swim a little more and your going to kill ducks. Ban them will some people be pissed yes....some people no.

Basicly it comes down to are we going to let a spinning wing decoy tear the sport apart? I think not

[Erik Nilsson]

We cant use motorized here in Pa. Don't much care for wind driven ones.


Have you guys ever used a mojo crow? I was curious if they held there own for crow hunting or if they flare crows.

[cottonwoodsman]

Ban them! By the fifties, a number of states had banned call ducks and weeded out many of the weekend warriors. Like many states, the rivers of NE, it has become combat hunting and taken out the beauty of legitimately fooling nature.

[Jeremy Kriese]

I could honestly care less if they ban them or not. I own one and use it on ocassion but i really think i shoot more birds without one. Some days it brings em right in but most days for me at least it is better to leave it at home.

[Arliss Reed "Cuz"]

In defense of the SWD, I do feel that they give more hunters a chance at close range, easier shots, which reduces the crippling rate. As long as people follow limits, I think they are helpful, it prevents guys from crippling ducks and not counting them into their bag limit, if someone kills 6 ducks cleanly and calls it a day, I say thats better than killing 8 ducks and recovering 6.

[Cbasin HONKER]

I hunt alot of public water for ducks, and i think it shouldnt be banned because it does give public land hunters like me a little edge, just my opinion.

[Steiny]

Ban them. These decoys have made "wanna be" duck hunters think they are the best thing since sliced bread. A buddy of mine has used as many as 19 spinners at once. Do they kill them you dam right they do, but they aren't much for callers. So that makes up for it. It makes it way too easy for people wanting to just jump right into the sport and kill ducks like there is no tomorrow. People need to get back to the basics, as said before. Learn how to properly blow a call, scout, decoy placement, and number one learn how to read ducks. If you do these four things you can kill ducks with out these spinners. Just my .02 cents worth.

[Beaus_dad]

To me a limit of ducks is a limit of ducks no matter if I used a SWD or simple GHG FB ducks with the real motion bases. To me the effectiveness of a SWD is far over rated.There are a lot of factors that make up a hunt having a SWD is not a garrentee

[Mark Wardlaw]

Personally, I am tired of messing with the things. Dead batteries, lost wings, stakes,remotes,etc.

[Derek Rambo]

Ban......maybe some of the young birds will make it past SODAK and we will get some of the dumb ones. They are deadly in Canada and I think it shows up down the flyway with older, smarter birds.

JMO.

[bps12]

Well I"m from arkansas, so you may all know we have not been ablee to use them for the last couple of years and i have seen a lot of guys quit hunting because they didn't want to put out the work it takes to decoy a group of ducks without a mojo. You have to do everything right, decoys, calling, and most of all be where they want be.

[bps12]

Ban......maybe some of the young birds will make it past SODAK and we will get some of the dumb ones. They are deadly in Canada and I think it shows up down the flyway with older, smarter birds.

JMO.

I agree with you, It's kind of like only hunting the smartest, oldest, big tom turkey that ever walked every day of the season. At least down here in Arkansas

[mstark]

whether they are banned or not, human inginuity will just find something else to tip the odds in their favor. It doesn't really matter to me, I killed alot of birds before the spinners came out. It's just like the fullbody decoys, they are so realistic now it is scary. My only concern is, if we let them ban the spinners, where will the banning stop?

[G Doyle]

I personally do not think that they should ban spinning wing decoys. Yes people can kill more ducks with them sometimes but it is not hurting the population that bad. I don't own one and will not ever buy one for ducks anyway. Dove hunting over them is quite impressive though. I don't like using them on account of flared ducks, wanting to call duck old fashion style, and it scares geese when they come in. If banning spinning wing decoys because of too many birds dieing, then maybe these new goose decoys like Dave Smith, Hardcore, and GHG are too realistic and why not ban them too. Plus it would destroy several companies that have made their whole business on them. Limit them on numbers, where you can use them and maybe times, but not a ban.

Grant Doyle

[XR-2 Fan]

I think it's funny how hunting success in the south has steadily declined since the late 90's when the spinning wing decoys were introduced. I'm not saying the spinners are the cause, and I know there are many many factors for this, but I would guess there are far more hunters chas'n ducks now than it was back then, and the spinners have definitely made it easier for Joe Smo to go out and kill ducks without really knowing what he's doing. I'm all for introducing people to this excellent sport, but lets get back to the basics-calling, scouting and proper decoy placement. That's the most fun part anyway!!! I do think a ban would ease some hunting pressure and overall help our hunting success down south. I'm telling ya guys, it's gotten BAD down here especially on certain public areas. Just my opinion.

[HonkerGenocide]

The robo duck has made a poor to average hunter a good hunter. I also do belive that they give hunter a unfair advantage. But to cover both sides I would hate to see regulations on products. Eventually we'd all be shooting single-shot 20-gauges, wearing gray Dickies instead of camo, and blowing kazoos because the duck calls are to effective.

[HonkerGenocide]

does anybody agree with me?

[CurrituckBoy]

I dont think it matters

I have great luck either way

Michael

[NILGOOSER]

It really doesn't matter to me. I've seen them help but I've also seen tons of ducks flare from them. Either way I will still be huntin!!

[Dux r me]

wow some one just had to bring it up........who cares i found them to be a pain in the arse and just seems more awarding with out one. either way i dont think there dramaticly gonna kill duck populations were already doin a good job of that by getten rid of all the marshes and now feilds.

[Fiebes]

personally i dont like the whole idea of motorized decoys. i have 2 myself, but i only use them when conditions are hard, cause i like to get em in with my deeks and callin, not motors, but hey i think its alright for like half the season.

[Walt McCord]

Here goes!! I personally think they should be illegal everywhere!!! what is the difference in setting in Arkansas where they are illegal and just across the river in Mississippi you can use them!!! I believe they should be illegal in all states!!!!

[Cory Johnson]

Ban them!!

[QuackerWacker]

Ban Them!!!!!!!!!

[waterfowladdict]

They make to many bad hunters good hunters. I am for a BAN on all types of spinning wing decoys. In my opinion, learn how to scout, and learn how to call.

[Quackcephus]

I have probabally killed more than my "fair share" of ducks long before mojos, robos or spinners became the "RAGE OF THE AGE"... so to speak. Alot of guys say learn to be a better caller, etc... well what's next, are we gonna ban high end duck calls & instructional dvd's, video's, cd's or cassette's because guys are becommin' better callers... why stop there, while we're at it lets ban shotguns, camo, waders, mud motors, airboats, pirouges, outboard motor's, layout rigs, argo's, 4 wheelers & skateboards... a slob hunter is still a slob, reguardless if he uses a mojo or not.

The waterfowlin' community has bigger fish to fry than whether a guy uses a mojo or not... just my .02

[hunter]

I agree with quack. I could really care less if they ban them but if they get away with banning them why wouldn't they get rid of jerk cords, motion stakes and even flooding corn feilds and planting stuff just for ducks. Every thing we use for duck hunting we use to try to get an advantage. New things work for awhile but the ducks get smart and it stops working. Just give it more time.

[Swan Bo]

I did an experiment once. I spaced out two spreads of decoys about 70 yards, each with a robo mixed in. I turned one on and left the other off. After a little while I turned it off and turned the other one on. There was not a real difference in the amount of ducks that came in to either spread. I think they work better in the eary part of the season because the first year birds haven't seen them yet, but I would not use one in late season. Like what Cripple Cutter said, I see robos all over the place, especially on opening day, but I still limit out before them. The ducks get educated fast, so I really don't care one way or the other.

[Michael Weiss]

It is like this: I wish they were never made. I wish we would have never known how well they work (in some situations). This whole argument can get heated and driven into the ground like all others. This is a slippery slope like the topic of shooting hens.....do you shoot hens or let them pass??? So, I will explain my reasoning like this, figuring we don't have the luxury listed above:

Does it matter if they are banned to me.....a little. I understand we need to get the hunt back into the hunters hands, truly. However, I see things differently.

I would love to see them banned in public hunting areas. When we hunt Carlyle, if you don't have 3 robo's...your done!!!! There will be groups with 4-8 robo's going....??? It is unreal. The funny thing is, they don't need them down there...plenty of ducks willing to work. So, I am all for banning them in the public areas.

Now, for the use on land say in your home town and there is some ducks working a field, I don't see what the problem is if you are not on public ground.

Why....?

Many people who are all about the banning of the mojo and robo are the ones who hunt all the time, in the best places, have the money to spend on leases and friends in the same boat and then have the nerve to say"Why do you need a robo....we don't". I agree somewhat. But, there are places were there are so many ducks, guys who can't call, still kill ducks....believe it or not.

However, what about this:

1)The person hunts locally...
2)Can only hunt on weekends...
3)Has a 8-5 job, no time for scouting...
4)Spends money on taking care of family vacations and making sure important things in life come first...
5)The income is not there to get in on leases and clubs, trips....you get the point...

What if the argument was made on the other side of the fence and it went like this: If we can't use robos then the guys in Arkansas, NODAK, N. MO, Texas, California, LA, all the 'MEGAs' if you will, should only be able to shoot two ducks a day/person....How would that unfold??? (Your right, it wouldn't happen) They winter amazing amounts of birds and their success rate is high...really high.

If it means the working man can get his kids out on the weekend and kill a few ducks on the farm pond out side of town and make his boys happy...why should we be against that? A couple of ducks on the weekend, compared to guys hunting everyday and killing limits......who is ultimately killing more ducks.....?

Bill said it best....wish we would had never met!!!!

[Sinkbox<><]

I'm OK with it either way. I think it might be OK to allow those states w/ the lowest harvest to keep them. Those poor guys aren't killing any ducks anyway ad need all the help they can get with the lack of weather and migration.

Sinkbox<><

[cooter]

This is the same as Gun Control. You give them one, and they will be back next week for something else. The true Duck and Goose killer will kill ducks and geese if they were reduced to throwing rocks.

The guys that are out for a boat ride, and to shoot their guns, don't average 20 ducks a season with or without a Spinner. Ducks have always managed to catch on to the gimicks.

If they want to fix something, fix the problem of Pintails, Cans, etc not having what it takes to improve their breeding #'s. If they want to fix something, cull the preditors of the wetlands. Ranchers can protect their live stock, why can't we protect the ducks that we spend MILLION$ on each and every year.

If we are wanting to create change, then let's do it in a place that it would really make a difference. cooter

[ted 10ga]

I've notice two things on this People from the south want them banned because the guy's too the north are killing all there ducks,and guy's in the mid-west want them banned to get rid of competion...That all said I know of some real good caller that will tell you they are a tool of the trade and have a place...But to ban would be wrong if that the case i say ban SBEII there to effective Just my thoughts :o

[Joel Draxler]

Hello everybody I am new to the board and thought this was as good a place as any to start.

I saw that most people who have weighed in on this one, that show their locations, are from the mid-west and south. I just wanted to throw a westerners oppinion in here. I am pretty new to hunting over deeks so naturaly (sales hype) I wanted to get one (MOJO). I am no pro and never even used one last season, but I did buy one for next season. For me first and foremost is getting my calling down pat. I figure if I can make the right sounds with my call, with time in the field learning to read ducks, I will be able to know how to put those sounds together to bring the ducks in. Second is scouting and patterning the ducks. This made mountains of difference last season. Hunting ducks is way easier if you know where they will be come sun up. Third is learning how to set a good spread. Part of that for me will be where and when to use the MOJO. Do I think it will help? Yes. Do I think they should be banned? No. But I will be hunting next season and many seasons to come with or without the MOJO.

I guess my biggest reason for thinking they should not be banned, is if they help people get the ducks in a little closer and therefor increase the chances for good clean kills I can go for that. Please don't take this as me saying we should allow anything that could bring ducks in better, because I am most certainly not.

[Jeff Gudenkauf]

This is the same as Gun Control. You give them one, and they will be back next week for something else.

This is VERY different than gun control. It's hunters that want spinners banned, not some third party that has no idea about the impact they have on other hunters and hunting.

I agree 125% wholeheartedly with Micheal Weiss. I typed the same thing, almost verbatim, about a year ago. Ban 'em on public grounds, do as you wish on private.

[Joel Draxler]

Ban 'em on public grounds, do as you wish on private.

This I could agree with.

[Zach White]

I would have to say BAN them! But right now I am on both sides, we hunt a bunch of public water and when we do we won't take the field without one. I think they are a huge help when hunting traffic ducks, field hunting, and when you are not on the X. When we are hunting private stuff and we are where they want to be we don't use them becaues the birds are coming anyways we just reply on decoy placement and good calling.

I say ban them....but until they do I will continue to use them because I hate watching Yahoo's who I feel "don't" put in the effort to become better hunters shoot ducks. It give me an unfair advantage to not use them in some cases even though I dont like them!

[Mallardbreath]

I guess if it can be proven that they are detrimental to continental waterfowl populations, ban them. If not, I don't see a problem. That said, I don't own one.

[cooter]

This is the same as Gun Control. You give them one, and they will be back next week for something else.

This is VERY different than gun control. It's hunters that want spinners banned, not some third party that has no idea about the impact they have on other hunters and hunting.

I agree 125% wholeheartedly with Micheal Weiss. I typed the same thing, almost verbatim, about a year ago. Ban 'em on public grounds, do as you wish on private.

This just seems to get better and better. I for one don't want HUNTERS making ANY decisions for me or on things that effect my hunting. The guys that have educations in these fields are tough enough to handle. Just like the staatement Ban'm on Public, and let private do what they please WELL, that just jumps right out there with the statewment It is ALL about the ducks It really says it is personally motivated, you hunt public so you want them out of your hair. There is probably more ducks killed on private land than public, but that isn't a concern, because it doesn't effect you.

Beside all that, they are ready have wind blown spinner. string draw spinner, and god only know what else, combating the laws in the states that has already banned them. So what did they really do for the DUCKS NOTHING these states still have spinner in the fields, just built in a way to get around the law that was passed. Free Enterprise has already got around the Spinner Law, and it has always been that way, no matter what field you look at.

You want to do something for the ducks, then start asking the hard questions.

With all the money that we are spending on ducks through the major Orgs. D.U. & Delta.
(1)Why can't we find the answer to why Pintails, Cans, and a few others are not rebounding in breeding. Instead, we just reduce the # that can be taken each year. This isn't a fix. It;s not even a patch, and I don't have one problem with us banning the shooting of ducks that in trouble, totally. But we have been working on this problem for decades, and are still no closer than when we started.
(2)Predators - We are spending million, each year on improving, and increasing the duck numbers. But can't deal with the animals that are kicking butt on our hard spent monies. The more food source for predators in the wetlands (Ducks & Ducks eggs) the more predators are born because the area will support it. But, we don't even get the same benefit as farmer, who can kill animals causing their live stock a problem.
(3)Hind sight is always 20/20, but if we would have put the money that was donated over the last several years into buying property. We could have probably bought the Whole Wet Lands Breeding areas, put water wells on them, and they would NEVER be a drought in the breeding areas. When weather was good, it would require nothing. When there was a drought, then turn on the wells and pump it up. I know it sound like a simple solution, but just think of what monies we have spent in the last 20 years or the 5o years that I have been hunting.

Then we get the mind set that to help the ducks we need to reduce the limits, ban spinner, etc. etc. etc. This isn't working and never has. Everything keeps going up on prices, and it is to help the ducks. I think these Org should be run like a regular business. Within a set period of time, if the leaders of the company are not showing a profit (Duck #'s Improvement) then we get someone else to lead the way with different ideas. This along would get the orgs more aggressive, and willing to hire lawyer, and lobbist to press for dealing with the predators like land owner can do. They don't deal with the same issues you do to keep your job, and I think they should.

I support both of the Orgs, and not with just a minimum donation, but I think they have had long enough to show a improvement. We need a different mind set at the leader level. Yeah, we have nice building offices for them to conduct business out of, we get to see them go on hunts in the top areas they are working on, we get to see all the wheeling a dealing (High Profile) shows and parties that are put on to help with donations. BUT, the only thing that benefits me as a hunter and I want for my money is a better population of ducks, so they quit cutting my opportunities. I send my money, donations, go support the shows, and what I get for it is Reduced limits, bannning of items to save duck #'s, etc. etc.

What I do want to see for my money, is the duck #'s going up, and I'm not talking about just because the weather supported a good harvest this year, they are going to take a little credit, and then with it is down, I get the Drought cost us a good harvest. I could have got exactly that and never given a dime.

What I am wondering is when are we going to quit cutting our own throats and start requiring the companies we pay to handle the situation, to handle it. I do know one thing for sure. If you had your money for retirement in a company that had a tract record like these Orgs have, you wouldn't leave it there long or you would be straving when you were old. You wouldn't do that to YOUR family, but we will just keep giving and get little for the millions that is donated every year. ZI'm not wanting to quit giving, I want us to require more, or get someone with a new idea. I don't see this direction working.

Spinners are not your problem. cooter

[Michael Weiss]

Originally posted by Cooter:

(2)Predators - We are spending million, each year on improving, and increasing the duck numbers. But can't deal with the animals that are kicking butt on our hard spent monies. The more food source for predators in the wetlands (Ducks & Ducks eggs) the more predators are born because the area will support it. But, we don't even get the same benefit as farmer, who can kill animals causing their live stock a problem.

Are you sure???

Predators are not the problem. Period! That is the smokescreen that 90% of duck hunters want to use. "We need to kill predators and then we will have ducks." That is one of the oldest and most false statements one can make. And I will tell you why. Waterfowl numbers are compensatory, not additive!

Ducks have been dealing with predators longer then they have with their breeding areas being destroyed by us. Also, the main types of predators that affect waterfowl populations are species like Eagles, Hawks, Falcons, Owls, Great Blue Herons (which hammer fledgling wood ducks all spring and summer), etc. Now, which one of those species is the Federal Govt. going to let you shoot??? NOT ONE!!!

That's why organizations like one you mentioned that focuses on Predator control for one of their topics, is NOT respected by the scientific community. In college, Dr. Anderson, the chair of the Biological Dept., along with other wildlife Professors, would not allow for a Delta chapter to be started on campus. Why??? What do they do for the greater good......Adopt a pot hole and they have a good grad program going on...that's it. Also, every year both state and local govt. set aside money for non-profit org. like DU and Delta. A good friend of mine is a regional Biologist and he told me that Delta gets such a small portion of the money, it is embarrassing. The whitetails get more money than Delta....and we are not short on deer, that's for sure.

However, both organizations have their flaws. I stopped giving as much as I have in the past for one reason. The "Presidents" of the companies get inflated salaries that are out of this world. And when I say inflated, I mean 300,000 + a year inflated.....you think that is morally right when the money is donated to help preserve a natural resource that WE need..not just wildlife???

I was just bringing these topics up NOT TO FIGHT and this was all said with a neutral tone, trust me. I am just hitting on a few things that I know about and science has proven.

All the other points you made Cooter, were damn good ones. You made a solid argument and I support your passion and understand were you are coming from. Good post!!!!!

[MattKenzer]

Quick question Michael....Do you have any data on the damage Crows have on our waterfowl numbers?

Thanks,

Darren

PS: Good post Michael and Cooter.

[Michael Weiss]

I know crows love eggs!!!! So, I am positive they have some effect on nests. I tried looking up a paper I read in college on JSTOR but could not find it. It was a paper on Crows and the effects on nesting waterfowl and how they made simulated waterfowl nest and they measured the impact crows had on them. I do remember it being a good read and very interesting.

Therefore, I am sure crows are give them a whipping too. Good point, forgot all about those guys.

[MattKenzer]

Thanks for the response Micheal.....Heading out in an hour with a buddy of mine to do a little crow hunting....I have a taxidermist looking for a couple to mount. Just maybe, I will do a little to help my local population of waterfowl.

Thanks again,

Darren

[Jeff Gudenkauf]

This just seems to get better and better. I for one don't want HUNTERS making ANY decisions for me or on things that effect my hunting. The guys that have educations in these fields are tough enough to handle. Just like the staatement Ban'm on Public, and let private do what they please WELL, that just jumps right out there with the statewment It is ALL about the ducks It really says it is personally motivated, you hunt public so you want them out of your hair. There is probably more ducks killed on private land than public, but that isn't a concern, because it doesn't effect you.

You're incorrect on your assumption - 50% of my hunting is done on private lands.

My issues with spinners are not driven by the "ducks" and any worry of over harvesting. As a whole, hunters have very little effect on the migratory bird populations - with or without spinners. My issue is with the hunting experience.
I don't like the idea of using a battery operated machine to attract any kind of game (with the exception of predators, nuisance game, and the spring snow season as a conservation season) whether it be a spinner, mallard machine or swimmer decoys.
If you want to use a wind powered spinner, so be it - it's powered by mother nature - in my eyes its no different than a flag.
You want to hook up a jerk string? So be it. You're doing the work, not a battery and some belts.

I love the argument about mud motors, 3.5" shotguns, high end calls etc. None of those, with the exception of calls, are used to ATTRACT game. And any high end Zink, Lynch Mob, Grounds or RNT is worthless in the hands of about 85% of the hunting public. If you put in the time and effort to become proficient on a call, you should reap the benefits by increase bag sizes, but you sholudn't be rewarded because you remember to recharge your battery.

My opinion is that spinners affect the public hunting, in Iowa, in a negative way, which is why I feel the way I do.

Now, to your other point - I fully support wetland restoration and predator control studies and advancement. Those two issues are hands down the only things to consider when looking at overall waterfowl populations...not spinners.

[Walt McCord]

Here is some NEW info on the BAN!! I talked with one of the Commissioners of the Arkansas Game and Fish, and this is what he said. The mojo will be legal this year in Arkansas. The only way it would be outlawed in the US is if the US Fish and Wildlife would have to band it. There is a way but it would take a report or some kind of facts to show that using a MOJO kills mostly young ducks. He said the Arkansas Game and Fish did a report this year and could not prove that a MOJO only kills young ducks.
Its not looking good for the Young ducks!! I wish there was a way to get everyone that we can to NOT use a MOJO!!!!

[Rich Good]

I only use them when Im on public ground and its to my advantage, honestly though this year they had no positive effect, so to answer the question I can take them or leave them I preffer to leave them.

[oscar]

Around here the place they work the best and most consistantly is in the field.

I do think it has made a diifrence finsihing ducks in the field but so have my GHG FB mallards.

To be honest I could not care less either way. I do agree with Gudes comments but that is really the aurgument against them I do buy into.

[Iambenelliman]

Lets ban them and get back to "hunting ducks" and "calling ducks." There so many people where I hunt that just put up a couple robos and thats it!