Avery sues Bass Pro

[ksgoosekilr]

http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/...516139,00.html

Bass Pro sued for copyright infringement

May 2, 2007
While many Memphis politicians are hoping Bass Pro Shops will open a gigantic store inside the vacated downtown Pyramid, one Memphis-based company is suing the national retailer for alleged copyright infringement.

Avery Outdoors, one of the world's leading manufacturers of hunting products and waterfowl decoys, filed suit against Bass Pro Shops late last week in U.S. District Court in Memphis.

The lawsuit, which also named Ohio-based Global Manufacturing Associates as a defendant, claims the two companies have illegally copied, manufactured and sold waterfowl decoys designed and copyrighted by Avery.

"It's not something we wanted to do," said Tom Matthews, a Fayette County native and co-owner of Avery Outdoors. "But this is our business. It's our livelihood. We had no choice."

Larry Whitely, a spokesman from the Bass Pro Shops national headquarters in Springfield, Mo., would not comment on the suit.

"That's a legal matter," Whitely said. "We wish we could comment, but we just can't."

In 2002 and 2003, Avery hired master wood carvers Richard Rhode, Kelly Ross, Frank Peeters and Charlie Prinz to create original sculptures of several species of waterfowl. The sculptures were modified and decorated by outdoorsman Fred Zink and then used as the molds for Avery's hunting decoys, which are made of polyethylene and produced in China.

Avery officials say they took the proper steps to ensure a copyright on their designs. But according to the lawsuit, Bass Pro Shops obtained samples of the sculptures and had them copied "through use of molds" to create competing models.

The lawsuit claims Bass Pro Shops "made several minor alterations to their products which were fabricated from" Avery products.

Avery officials say the alterations were made to side-step copyright laws.

The suit specifically lists 14 models of Avery decoys that have allegedly been copied. The list includes popular models such as the life-size mallard drake, the life-size pintail, the life-size greenwing teal, and the standard Canada goose shell.

Pictures of each copyrighted Avery sculpture were provided to the court, along with corresponding pictures of the infringing decoy products.

The suit claims Bass Pro Shops unfairly took advantage of Avery's years of research and "completely avoided the time and expense of creating their own works of art in the form of decoys."

To illustrate the financial damages being experienced, Avery officials offer a comparison: Avery life-size mallard decoys sell for about $60 a dozen; Bass Pro Shops is selling a similar version for about $40 a dozen.

Avery is asking that the defendants turn over all profits derived from the alleged infringement. They are also asking for compensation for lost sales, plus punitive damages. Avery is also demanding that all infringing decoy copies and the materials used be impounded while the legal action is pending. The suit asks that the decoys, plates, molds and "other matter for making such infringing copies" be destroyed.

-- Bryan Brasher: 529-2343

[Weatherby]

good for avery! i was wondering how long this was going to take. it should be for some interesting reads

[DustyandtheKillin'Crew']

Its to bad for the sport of hunting in general that two HUGE corps. have came to this. I don't know much about the copy righting thing, but what a sucky deal. I always new that everyone has been trying to play catch-up to Avery but copy a companys decoys just isn't right.
It's not bad enough that Zumbo put his foot in his mouth, know 2 corps. are fighting. We are just leaving the door wide open for more Anti-Crap.
What I don't understand is why Bass Pro as big as they are wouldn't go out and get there own design like everyone else has.
Also why would it get this far as having to sue someone. That seems like what everyone is doin these days.
OOO well when the Anti's say give us all of your guns and close huntin seasons all we can say is I guess we should have all just got along.

[Ryan Kleinschmidt]

OOO well when the Anti's say give us all of your guns and close huntin seasons all we can say is I guess we should have all just got along.

That may be a bit extreem. With all the revenue the sports generate, you will never see that happen.

[Wingman]

It will be interesting to see how long this will take before it settles or if it actually ever makes it into a court room. Who do you call as experts...? Don't most of them work for Avery?:D (might be a little conflict of intrest there) Kind of hard in this era to find a neutral 3rd party that the Court would recognize as an "EXPERT" on the subject of decoys and decoy manufacturing.

Good Luck,

Adam

[Brad H]

Its about time Avery did something about it! I wonder if they tried working something out with bass pro before the filed a suit?

[mike.]

on the refuge forums, lots of people are chirping about greenhead gear :mad: they're saying stuff like, maybe the copyright chipped off (saying the paint is bad) etc..

[chux76]

How would you use this against hunting. I would be like if Chevy made a truck and then Ford came out with the exact same thing and called it a different name then people saying that you have to stop driving because Chevy is suing Ford because of copyright enfringment.

[Jeff Gudenkauf]

on the refuge forums, lots of people are chirping about greenhead gear :mad: they're saying stuff like, maybe the copyright chipped off (saying the paint is bad) etc..

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j197/veeveevee_2006/Smiley-Laughing.gifhttp://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j197/veeveevee_2006/Smiley-Laughing.gifhttp://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j197/veeveevee_2006/Smiley-Laughing.gifhttp://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j197/veeveevee_2006/Smiley-Laughing.gif

[CluckmeMN]

I think that Avery has every right to sue em. Avery spent how much time and money makin the best products, and then to have it stolen!! Good for Avery!!

[Wingman]

Like I said before, I think this will be interesting to see how it all plays out and I absolutely think that Avery has every right to go after compensation. That being said I think every waterfowl company in the industry has in one way, shape, or form stole some intellectual property along the way. I can think of more than one or two products out there that are not original ideas. Yet many might say they are not even close to the same at all rather much better improvements one an existing idea.

I hope it all works out and things get settled quickly & amicably but I would be careful about casting to many stones.

Cheers,

Adam

[Goose Junkie]

I think Avery is making a big mistake. It's a bad PR move and they will only make themselves look bad by following through with this. The thing is all decoy mfgs are trying to copy the real thing - a live duck or goose. So why is that OK but it's not OK to copy another mfg? Really it's nothing more than flattery to be copied. Let's face it, when GHG decoys first came out the goose decoys were designed an awful lot like Bigfoot decoys. Do you think Bigfoot should have sued Avery? No, because it would have tarnished their reputation. I'm not bashing Avery but I wish they would have avoided this. I also feel that folks may feel differently about sharing their ideas on how to improve the Avery product and having those ideas "stolen", after all isn't that part of what this site is all about? Unfortunately since this is now a public feud it will probably result in decreased sales or profitability in the future.

Sorry guys, I'm just not willing to jump on the bandwagon and agree that this is a good thing for any involved parties. It's a bad deal all the way around. I'll probably get flamed for saying it that way, but oh well.

[Christian Curtis]

Goose Junkie,

Look, you have no idea about the details of this so please refrain from making comments about it. This is only PR because people are posting this stuff on the internet. Whether you or anyone else think it is a good idea or bad idea has nothing to do with it. It is something that we HAD to do to protect or intellectual property and our livelihood...period.

There was a comment earlier is this thread about two HUGE CORPORATIONS going at it. This is comical to say the least. One might be and probably is a HUGE CORPORATION, we however are a very small company. We could not let this go on. We did not "leak" this information, it was published in a newspaper and was gathered by them from public court records.

There will be no more comments regarding this subject by myself, or any other Avery employee.

Thank you,

Christian Curtis

[Hardcorecaller12]

THATS WHY I BUY MY GEAR FROM CABELAS!!!! Bass Pro in Maryland is 15 mins way from me. Their service sinks. I also buy my calls and gear striaght from avery or zink.

[ksgoosekilr]

Goose Junkie,

This is only PR because people are posting this stuff on the internet.




Thought people would like to know about this. As a hunter I sure as hell would. I myself think that its B.S. but whatever. Everybody has copied in one way or another and you cannot say that Avery of GHG has not copied a single item. GIVE ME A BREAK! I guess if you don't kiss ass and aren't a part of the circle jerk you have no say in the matter. I think as customers we have every right to know.

[Wingman]

I also buy my calls and gear striaght from avery or zink.

How do you buy your stuff straight from Avery? :confused:

[Walt McCord]

I believe that if someone or a company works hard to make something the best thing they can, and someone else tries to take it from them they should fight for it!

I am 100% Avery and love every product they make. The part about people complaing about paint chipping off and defective stuff, is nothing but talk! I bet they never called customer service and asked what can be done, i.e. replace, or just talk back to the store, ect.!! I personally have never had a problem from any of my Avery Products, and if I were to, I would bet that Avery would help and stand behind the product to the fullest extent.

So I will close with this final thought!! Put yourself in Averys shoes! If you had something that you work(ed) hard for and it was something that you wanted to see grow and grow and be the best it can, and someone tried to take it from you, what would you do? I would do the legal thing!

[Dirt_Bag]

all you can ask is that its settled fast!! Im still waiting for the payout on the exxon valdez. alot of the claiments are already dead :mad:

[ksgoosekilr]

I also just wrote a paper this morning for my computer class. Gary Kildall (anybody can go ahead and look this up to verify) created the first computer operating system. What brand of computer do you have? This guy also put the first video on a CD-Rom and had the first CD encylopedia. IBM and Microsoft Corp. stole his idea and "cloned" their own operating system just like it and called it their own. Guess what? Bill Gates became rich off the studies of Digital Research Inc. I would be glad to post my paper up because it broke DRI's code of ethics they had set forth. Do you think a lawsuit was filed against them? Yes Do you think Gary Kildall got rich or any of the credit for this? Sure didn't. Do you think it ever passed as copyrighted? Sure didn't because it was claimed to be "different" when it was really an exact clone. At that time he basically took the back seat. Go ahead and look up all of this.

[Weatherby]

Thought people would like to know about this. As a hunter I sure as hell would. I myself think that its B.S. but whatever. Everybody has copied in one way or another and you cannot say that Avery of GHG has not copied a single item. GIVE ME A BREAK! I guess if you don't kiss ass and aren't a part of the circle jerk you have no say in the matter. I think as customers we have every right to know.

are you that ignorant? this has nothing to do with liking avery or basspro or anything else. when someone spends the money (and i mean alot of money) to make something and they have patented them. no one has a friggen right to take what they do. thats the LAW. it has 0 to do with kissing ass or being in a circle jerk. wtf does that have anything to do with this matter anyway? your either someone young or someone that has 0 clue on how business works. pull your head out before you go spouting off. it pisses me off when someone that ignorant goes spouting off about business when they have no clue. how would you like it if you made something, something that you have worked hard on that is unique in the way you do it and someone else comes in steals your mold, makes lots of money while your product suffers from it? would you just say "nah it's ok, let them do it"? well if the answer is yes, well i feel real sorry for you.

[Weatherby]

I also just wrote a paper this morning for my computer class. Gary Kildall (anybody can go ahead and look this up to verify) created the first computer operating system. What brand of computer do you have? This guy also put the first video on a CD-Rom and had the first CD encylopedia. IBM and Microsoft Corp. stole his idea and "cloned" their own operating system just like it and called it their own. Guess what? Bill Gates became rich off the studies of Digital Research Inc. I would be glad to post my paper up because it broke DRI's code of ethics they had set forth. Do you think a lawsuit was filed against them? Yes Do you think Gary Kildall got rich or any of the credit for this? Sure didn't. Do you think it ever passed as copyrighted? Sure didn't because it was claimed to be "different" when it was really an exact clone. At that time he basically took the back seat. Go ahead and look up all of this.

thats what i thought you are young and have 0 business experience.

[yelladog]

maybe they should stick to fishin and let avery take care of the hunters!

[QuackerWacker]

That sounds good to me!!!!

[ksgoosekilr]

are you that ignorant? this has nothing to do with liking avery or basspro or anything else. when someone spends the money (and i mean alot of money) to make something and they have patented them. no one has a friggen right to take what they do. thats the LAW. it has 0 to do with kissing ass or being in a circle jerk. wtf does that have anything to do with this matter anyway? your either someone young or someone that has 0 clue on how business works. pull your head out before you go spouting off. it pisses me off when someone that ignorant goes spouting off about business when they have no clue. how would you like it if you made something, something that you have worked hard on that is unique in the way you do it and someone else comes in steals your mold, makes lots of money while your product suffers from it? would you just say "nah it's ok, let them do it"? well if the answer is yes, well i feel real sorry for you.

Thats what I thought another ass kisser. Shit happens now doesn't it. Did you ever cheat once in school and claim it as your own, on a quiz or anything. Yeah well illegal immigrants can make it into our country and there are many laws against them but does that stop them from comign here. NOPE! Tyson Rrocessing out of Emporia, Kansas has brought Somalis into our town. They built them their own biddays in the bathrooms and their own prayer room. Who created the first ground blind. Final Approach. I think Avery stole that idea. Bigfoot had decoys out before GHG. They stole their idea didn't they? What a loser.

[ksgoosekilr]

thats what i thought you are young and have 0 business experience.

Oh I forgot your the almighty ultimate! I wouldn't want to be affiliated with a company like Avery anways? Why do you kiss their ass so much? Let me guess your another guy that has never seen a scratch on a GHG decoy or seen anything break? If not you must just be a weekend warrior. I don't think the judge in this case will be able to judge that they are the exact same thing? I'm just the only one on here that has the balls to point out the obvious to people I guess.

[ksgoosekilr]

I'm 19 by the way and I bet youve sped before even 1 mph over. That is BREAKING THE LAW. I like to have just as much fun as everybody else but I'm going to ignore the personal attacks. Whatever floats your boat is fine but welcome to the new world buddy. There is A TON OF OTHER STUFF OUT THERE THAT HAS BEEN COPIED BTW!!! Tell me if you've seen something Avery came out with that was already on the market? Blinds?Decoys?Camo Umbrellas?Flags?Decoy Bags?Ace Decoy Anchors?Gear Bags?that looks the same? Anybody got any hip boots I can borrow to wade through all the crap! :p

[zwohl]

My question is that if Bass Pro purchases the decoys from Hiyang (which we have all seen copy Avery decoys), and there is no Copyright protection in China. How is Bass Pro infringing on any Copyrights?? Its obvious they produce the decoys for Bass Pro, look at them, they are identical to anything they offer on the website. So how can Avery demand revenue from Bass Pro, shouldnt it be Hiyang, Avery goes after. (which wouldnt stand in US court anyway) This whole thing is ridiculous. What happened when Avery used to make Redhead decoys? (as posted in earlier thread when I asked) Why did that deal fall through? Im not trying to be an a-hole. Im asking questions like nr_gooseslayer said that customers deserve the right to know....

[J Kryspin]

NR - Before you get down off your high-horse, I believe Carry-Lite had full bodies before BigFoot. ;)

[DrakesOnly]

I am appaled at the way people get into these rants about nothing. Avery has every right to sue whoever they want if there has been a detrement to their business. I imagine there are copyright lawsuits out of the ying yang all over this great nation.

[ksgoosekilr]

NR - Before you get down off your high-horse, I believe Carry-Lite had full bodies before BigFoot. ;)

Sorry I was unaware of that Krypsin. But everybody should look at the post where I mentioned if Avery has "copied" anything. Theres plenty of other things out there that have been copied and that just doesn't include hunting stuff. Welcome to the new world boys. I'm going to step off the high horse now. I would say I also have to agree with zwohl on this one.

[Weatherby]

Oh I forgot your the almighty ultimate! I wouldn't want to be affiliated with a company like Avery anways? Why do you kiss their ass so much? Let me guess your another guy that has never seen a scratch on a GHG decoy or seen anything break? If not you must just be a weekend warrior. I don't think the judge in this case will be able to judge that they are the exact same thing? I'm just the only one on here that has the balls to point out the obvious to people I guess.

wtf does that have anything to do with what is going on between avery and basspro? did i say i have never seen paint get scratched or anything break? again wtf does that have to do with the subject? personally i don't care if the companies are owned by jesus christ and bill clinton...company a stole company b's molds/ideas etc. it's not that basspro made some mallard decoys or goose decoys or whatever they made. they took someone elses stuff to COPY...thats it plain and simple. so don't bring up kissing ass or anything else thats not the point. pull your head out once again and stay on topic here ffs. if you want to argue over why you are a unhappy kid then put it up somewhere else, but fcs thats not the topic on this matter

[Weatherby]

Sorry I was unaware of that Krypsin. But everybody should look at the post where I mentioned if Avery has "copied" anything. Theres plenty of other things out there that have been copied and that just doesn't include hunting stuff. Welcome to the new world boys. I'm going to step off the high horse now. I would say I also have to agree with zwohl on this one.

if avery "copied" something that is patented then i am sure they will/would get their ass sued also. take a look at some of the new carvings that bigfoot made for their new fb mallards. who ver carved them spent a ton of time and effort, do you think it would be fair if someone like macks or cabelas stole that mold and copied it? come on think about it.

[ksgoosekilr]

If you feel the need shoot me a PM Weatherby. Im don't want everybody else to listen to the **** between me and you.

[ksgoosekilr]

if avery "copied" something that is patented then i am sure they will/would get their ass sued also. take a look at some of the new carvings that bigfoot made for their new fb mallards. who ver carved them spent a ton of time and effort, do you think it would be fair if someone like macks or cabelas stole that mold and copied it? come on think about it.

Once again Avery NEVER :p copies anything? Give me a break. I brought up the fact that things have been copied in some way, shape or form. How did they steal the molds? Go over to China and take them right outta the factory(I know they probably made one outta their decoys Weatherby)? LOL

[J Kryspin]

Once again Avery NEVER :p copies anything? Give me a break. I brought up the fact that things have been copied in some way, shape or form. How did they steal the molds? Go over to China and take them right outta the factory(I know they probably made one outta their decoys Weatherby)? LOL

In business - there's a huge difference between a direct copy and a subsitute. Substitutes are things that are of the same "type" and can be replaced by others.

Think about this - Chevrolet had the first 4WD SUV in the Suburban. If Ford would have made an identical copy, but rebadged it, there would be/have been a lawsuit. Instead, Ford tweaked the Chevy design and come up with something of their own.

What BPS did was make exact copies of GHG material and tried to pass it off as their own.

Nothing more to it, nothing less.

[ksgoosekilr]

Well if the paint actually sticks to the Bass Pro decoys then they definitely aren't the same thing. Don't get me wrong my trailer is stocked full of GHG goose decoys but my bro and I purchased 5 dz. GHG duck decoys and they flat out sucked. Customer Service just laughed at the pics we sent and there were big chunks missing off the heads, tails, and bodies. I hate people that copy stuff but everybody has and you can't argue that.

[steelhammer]

I think the Geese should sue them both for copying them!

[Ryan Kleinschmidt]

I think this thread needs to die!!

[Hansen]

I wonder where Avery got the idea for their: motion stakes, stretchee decoy anchor cords, motion stakes, etc. . . . . .

[Weatherby]

i can't tell you because i don't know all the facts. but i do remember what tom mathews was saying last year. but yes, from what i remember avery had a manufacturer in china doing stuff for them, and avery parted ways with them, they made copies of the molds and wahla basspro has them. i am sure i am off on this as i don't know the details and i hate to type stuff out without the facts but i believe that is close to what happened.

and to answer an earlier question, yes i have had a issue with avery. i had a life size canada floater peel the paint right off the back of it when i took it out of the box. i called chris smith, explained it to him toook some pics, and within a few days i had a new decoy sitting on my front porch! did i post it the pic of the decoy and call them out on it? no, they simply took care of the problem in a professional matter. and btw chris smith has done some other things for me that i WILL be posting on here as soon as they are done. i do NOT kiss anyones ass, i have had the pleasure of hunting with TnT and think they are outstanding people. That i can call friends.

[compass]

Best of Luck to Tom and Avery:

Success in this lawsuit is key to defense of your core business model with regard to decoys. For us out here in the marketplace enjoying the simultaneous revolution in decoy quality and price (not an understatement by any means) it is critical to recognize that this can only have happened with assurance of future competitive protection. It cannot continue to flourish in an environment where other corporations have the freedom to steal. It is also critical that the increasingly important Chinese manufacturing market learns to behave according to worldwide standards in this as other markets. I can only hope you have excellent lawyers and a sufficient war chest.

Your consumers are relying on you to prevail in this endeavor.

Thank you for all you have done for this field.

[SMIGRATOR]

If i had to look out for a company that i built i would watch my back just the way that avery has, if that be takng it to court, there are copy right laws for a reason, and those need to be followed peroid.

[J Kryspin]

I wonder where Avery got the idea for their: motion stakes, stretchee decoy anchor cords, motion stakes, etc. . . . . .

Ideas and concepts are one thing.

A copyrighted product is another.

Direct copying a copyrighted product is the issue.

By your realization, there'd be only one car, one suv, one pickup, etc. No one is a direct copy by a competitor.

[Wingman]

Unless someone on here is an attorney that has a number of years in Copyright Law & Intellectual Property Protection experience this topic should be left alone and die until more FACTS are available to the Gen Public.

Cheers,

Adam

[J Kryspin]

Well if the paint actually sticks to the Bass Pro decoys then they definitely aren't the same thing. Don't get me wrong my trailer is stocked full of GHG goose decoys but my bro and I purchased 5 dz. GHG duck decoys and they flat out sucked. Customer Service just laughed at the pics we sent and there were big chunks missing off the heads, tails, and bodies. I hate people that copy stuff but everybody has and you can't argue that.

NR - Just for fun, why don't you start another thread about your duck decoys and include some of the pertinent info like:

Which decoys you purchase
Pictures of the decoys
Approximate time of purchase
When the decoys became "defective" (i.e. right out of the box, after 2 hunts, after 22 hunts, etc.)

Just curious...

I know I'd like to see them. Maybe someone could help you out on these?

[ksgoosekilr]

Unless someone on here is an attorney that has a number of years in Copyright Law & Intellectual Property Protection experience this topic should be left alone and die until more FACTS are available to the Gen Public.

Cheers,

Adam

We will never know because we are not going to be informed on the issue, hence why Christian said for all prostaffers to stay outta this, probably for legal reasons. I just thought we all should know about this so I posted it up. I know its wrong for somebody to copy and if they took the molds, well piss on them. But you cannot say that Avery has not done the same thing with some of their items. That is all I'm getting at.

[ksgoosekilr]

NR - Just for fun, why don't you start another thread about your duck decoys and include some of the pertinent info like:

Which decoys you purchase
Pictures of the decoys
Approximate time of purchase
When the decoys became "defective" (i.e. right out of the box, after 2 hunts, after 22 hunts, etc.)

Just curious...

I know I'd like to see them. Maybe someone could help you out on these?

JKrypsin,
Its too late because this happened I believe two years ago. I can actually get over things and now all we buy is G&H duck decoys. My bro had the pics hosted on Hunt101 and I believe the site was shut down but I will see if I can dig the pics up. I know my bro posted a thread on the issue and the prostaffers said there is no way this could of happened (typical). The decoys were taken on 8,and I kid you not hunts, before we just through them on the shelf in the shed and they never made another outing. We sold them to a local kid because we had no use for them. Customer service wasn't willing to help us out so we quit buying the duck decoys. Its that simple, lesson learned.

[J Kryspin]

I know its wrong for somebody to copy and if they took the molds, well piss on them. But you cannot say that Avery has not done the same thing with some of their items. That is all I'm getting at.

I'll play along into your theory...

Can you find me one instance where Avery has produced an exact replica of a previously copyrighted item?

Remember there is a HUGE difference between substitute products and direct copies. The Finisher Blind can be a substitute for a Pro-Guide (or whatever FA Blind) and so on. A rebadged Pro-Guide sold under the "Elite-Guide" (hypothetical) by a different company is a copy...

[Hansen]

http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/4632/p009243sq03hn0.jpg

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/1500/i227585sn01ya6.jpg

[Weatherby]

i wonder if there is a patent on those?

[Jeff Gudenkauf]

Has anyone patented stupidity? I could make a FORTUNE off that...


...off this thread alone.

[Weatherby]

Has anyone patented stupidity? I could make a FORTUNE off that...


...off this thread alone.

gude i have a patent attourney friend that would do that for you.....ROFL :p

[ksgoosekilr]

I'm done with this thread. You guys aren't out of lipstick yet!!!!!!????

[QuackerWacker]

Those anchors were not made from the same mold that is the difference between copying and a substitution, what bass pro did was copy not an idea but a mold BIG DIFFERENCE!!

[ksgoosekilr]

Lets all agree on this guys. Everything Avery puts out is perfect, their own ideas, etc. I think they are missing one part to the equation. Maybe a quality control team would better suit the company because apparently there isn't one. How about getting shipments on time!!? I guess when all the snow geese were yellowing it was not ANY of Avery's fault. LOL Substitution or not looks like the exact same thing to me except a few notches on the GHG ones. I believe the logo on BPS decoys would consider them a "substitution". I would say a contract should have been signed stating that if the Xiang or whatever company and Avery went separate ways, the molds could be destroyed or given back to GHG. I guess trying to deal with the communists in China just makes that too tough. Just my .02

[ksgoosekilr]

Borrowed from Dan Mallia off the Refuge. Hope you don't mind Dan!

Isn't Avery also the originator of the patented copyrighted "motion system" in full body decoys? I swear I've seen that motion system in another decoy WAY before we saw them in the Avery dekes.

I also love the Avery True Bird "ATB" Dog Training Dummy, almost sounds like DFT, Dead Fowl Trainer Hell, it even LOOKS like it.

I think dogs have been trained good enough long before they came out with the realistic paint scheme on these bad boys. LMAO

[QuackerWacker]

If you hate Avery so much what are you doing on this site besides stirring up trouble?

[ksgoosekilr]

Ok I will gladly walk away from this site. Avery is a bunch of greedy fools IMO. I will leave it alone so the cheerleaders like you can take over. Does your butt hurt yet or your back from bending over so much? or are your lips getting tired!? LOL I'm done with this place! I guess if you don't praise the almighty AVERY GOD then get the hell outta here. Heres the finger to that god and all of his disciples!!! I hope a quality control team is hired so more people don't get screwed.

[ksgoosekilr]

If you hate Avery so much what are you doing on this site besides stirring up trouble?

Dang them products all do look so similar now don't they!? LOL

I would consider the BPS decoys a substiution because they don't have the same paint scheme on them.

[Josh Brugmans]

nr_gooseslayer.

I am not trying to start stuff with you, but I would like to know what other company has the/or looks like the Avery Real Motion System.

[zwohl]

NR you are right, it makes too much sense to go after Bass Pro Shops then try to deal with a company that as stated before on this very website, Avery has been trying to sue for a long time. Just admitt that "Redhead" decoys are a substitution. They dont even have the same head postions on the geese and the other duck species and a different paint scheme on the mallards. They are comparable to your layout blinds being considered substitutions for Final Approach's original idea. Maybe I'm wrong but Avery doesnt pay FA royalties on that idea. I just wish Avery would get back to making great products and realize that this is a much larger issue than Bass Pro Shops. Your court cases against Hiyang have been unsuccessful in the past, so move on and produce your decoys to the standards that have been set by this company. I am sure the paint is not as durable, and the flocking, etc... Also provide the customers service that cannot be replicated by Bass Pro, I'm sure getting stuff fixed is alot more difficult through them. Now thats my .02 cents.

[QuackerWacker]

Whoa! nr I'm not an Avery cheerleader I was just asking a simple question. You have to have some people skills to talk to these guys, and if you use them they are very helpful.

[CluckmeMN]

Wow!! Seriously guys.:mad: Is there any way that the moderators can lock this thread??? I think that after reading 3 pages of this thread everyone can see where everyone else stands on this issue. Why does it seem that everyone has a cattail in their @$$. If I knew how to start a poll I vote that this thread is closed, and everyone sits down, has a cold one and lets it all go. Now with that bein said, I have a nice range finder that Im lookin to sell how bout everyone takes a look at my thread in the Pawn shop and starts to shoot me offers:D

[Jeff Gudenkauf]

The entertainment value provided by an over-confident, under-educated college student simply cannot be matched.

I hope this thread lives on for eternity.

[J Kryspin]

The entertainment value provided by an over-confident, under-educated college student simply cannot be matched.

I hope this thread lives on for eternity.

BEST.

POST.

EVER.

[Dux r me]

nr i love u dude

[Rick Frisch]

Gude,

You said it. I love it.

[Montauker]

If anyone has a bass pro catalog from last summer look at it and look at the amount of accesories and decoys that are exact to Avery's patented design but have the RedHead logo. The key word here is patented. Generally speaking it is ok to copy something so long as it isn't patented. To copy something doesn't mean the general idea it means the specifics that are part of the design and maunfacture of the product.

China's patent laws are not the same as in the US, many US companies have asked the government to step in and disallow the import of products that infringe on the US product. Infringe does not mean compete.

I'm not a patent expert but I work for one and as soon as I saw the Redhead catalog last year I knew this is where this was going to end up.

[DiverFreak]

I am not condoning Bass pro shops in any way, BUT atleast they were smart enough to copy the best and not FLAMBEAU MASTERS!

DiverFreak

[Montauker]

More to come on Monday when I have better access to court services. But it appears that Avery didn't throw the first stone in this fight. I won't say more until I have more info but the dispute started in early April with a suit filed by Global Manufacturers- that suit was filed in Federal Court in Ohio. Avery then filed suit in late April against Bass Pro and Global Man. in Tennesee Federal Court. Both cases are listed as IP/Copyright

[JJ McGuire]

I love these type of threads, thanks for the entertainment!

[ScarySouthernMan]

I just spent an hour and a half reading all of this...


I'm left asking myself why a certain person's account hasn't already been deleted.


If I didn't have to wake up in 5 hours to go earn money to spend on duck hunting this fall... I would respond... And I may still yet if I'm still this outwardly put off tomorrow afternoon by what may go down as the single most ridiculous post I have ever tripped on in all of my internet going days.

Before I respond, I'd like to pre-apologize to one Mr. Nr Gooseslayer. It has become painfully obvious that in that fancy school you're attending that they have neglected to teach the most important of all virtues... and that of course is common decency. Sleep well.

[Rick Frisch]

Scary,

I am laughing out loud. Thanks for making the day brighter.

[compass]

Since this thread is still open, one more time:

Tom and Avery, MAKE 'EM PAY! BUT GOOD.

In the long run the only way to maintain progress in this market is through fair market practices.

Again, thanks for the product and price revolution. Keep it up.

[Dirt_Bag]

This Thread Is Getting To Be Better Than Watching A Soap Oprha !!!!

Engage Brain Before Mouth !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ScarySouthernMan]

Ok I thought about it... I'm still mad.



Here is what I have to say, and as always I may ruffle a curly tailfeather or two but I think that some of us "the consumers" that have posted here are missing a few points.



If memory serves, I posted a question about it here on this forum the first time I noticed as a consumer, the obvious similarities between the two different companies involved here. My questions were adressed as they always are when I have a question here so that's all I'm even going to say about the original subject matter of this post.


Call it a bad day at work, call it boredom, or call it loyalty, but I think I've heard about enough Avery bashing on this thread.



Here are some things that the people who are ribbing this thread on in a negative light really need to sit back and think about.

#1 - You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

The staff is obviously not posting any subject matter on this thread to either confirm or dispute any of their forum members' comments regarding this subject. I am sure that there are reasons why they wouldn't want to have 30 some odd staff members conversing about a legal matter right here before court time... I don't care if it's over copyright infringement or a parking ticket. I can only speculate that they are all well aware of what's happening and that it isn't in anyone's, be it consumer or the company's better interest to talk about it. So shut up and root for the home team.

In addition, anyone that is publicly accusing Avery of commiting the same act with fabricated information about products that you don't know anything about in the first place CAN be criminally charged with slander and liable... It looks like the self-professed educated college fella would have learned that in 12th grade government class like everyone else.


#2 - In the event that you do know what you are talking about...

By coming onto a free company product forum and badmouthing their products on a forum thread that was designed to bring negativity to the company name you are being disrespectful. Respect, that must be another subject in which you fast-tracked your way through in school. Right or wrong about your information, at a certain point with your dimeanor, people stop caring if you know what you are saying because you sir are a 19 year old asshole. There I said it.


#3 - You're missing the point entirely.

I can't say that I know anything about you other than what I've read here on your post and your profile. But there are a couple things that you need to step back and look at very hard. You live in Kansas. I just got back from Kansas myself and it's a beautiful state with a near countless amount of Ducks, Darks and Snows alike. The multitude of waterfowl out there is quite enviable and I'm sure you're well aware of that. Here is something you might not be aware of. Where I live, in SW Virginia, we don't have many birds to speak of at all. So I need you to try and use that well funded, educated brain of yours and try to understand that I as a person don't have oppurtunities to get bored with watching thousands of birds mill around from day to day. That is why I come to this forum. This forum is meant for people like me who'd die for a chance to have that sort of stuff in their backyards and who HAVE to have the best products available in order to have any remote chance at producing numbers of ducks and geese consistantly even during inconsistant flight numbers. So, when I come here to learn more about the sport that I SPENT my college fund on, I don't want to read a post from some kid who thinks that because you are sitting in the lap of luxury in a living situation where you can hunt everyday that you have any authority to speak ill of anyone or anything for that matter. I used to be just like you, save the whole disrespectfulness. When I was 19, I thought I knew everything about waterfowling too. Then I hunted over GHG's for the first time about a year after that. When a product works that well, my first reaction is to get more of it. My second reaction is to find out more about the people behind it, and despite what you may think, they are people who deserve your respect. I don't see you making any contributions to the waterfowling community. They brought us some of the best gear I could have ever thought of and PLENTY more that I never would have. Avery and the people behind the company make me outwardly want to get up and go HUNT something. I've met some of the guys and had the oppurtunity to hunt with a couple of 'em too. There are plenty more on this forum that I don't know in person but based on the conversations on this forum I FEEL like I do. That is a comraderie that is most certainly UNHEARD of between a company and their consumers. You show me ONE other company that has that kind of customer relationship and I swear to God I'll never post another word on this forum. And to call me a "ass-kisser" or to tell me I'm a member of a "circle jerk" just goes to prove how little you understand. I'm embarrassed for you.

#4 - and lastly -

The personal highlight of this thread is when a 19 year-old boy tells me that he is going to tell me about the "New World". You poor soul. Why on earth would you think that we as duck hunters would ever want to be a part of a new world? Furthermore, to think you live in a new world is ignorant. People have been using whatever tools they've had at there disposal to hunt ducks among other things for thousands of years. Avery is what, five years old? Don't fool yourself into thinking that you know who invented anything. The concept of concealing yourself on the ground is as old as the first man who hid in the grass from something he was trying to kill and eat. I'll bet that's in your world history book.

When you come onto this forum with an attitude that is unwanted, why would you continue to stay here? Wake up Dorothy, you aren't in Kansas on the world wide web. And as far as thinking that your youthfulness gives you some sort of heads up on a changing society, then you can take that New World and stick it up your 19 year-old inexperienced ass.


Have a nice day.

[Nate Tegtmeier]

WOW! nicely done

[goosehunter64]

Very well put SSM....Very well put.

[SMIGRATOR]

Well said, Thanks.

[Dirt_Bag]

Hats off to SSM!! PUT A FORK IN IT, IT'S DONE!!

[compass]

SSM:

Amen, On all items. And you've clearly earned the right to your opinion.

And on your final point, the "New World" in waterfowling is largely due to innovations and and market pressure from AVERY. We can only hope they keep it up.

[jamesmc]

Hats off to SSM. Very well said.

[The Big Gumbo]

So Tom and Gang, did you get "The Firm" to represent you. :)