Last duck of the year, sweet cross breed

[Get Down Cover Up]

This is the last duck i shot this year and usually that is a hard pill to swallow but with a mallard widgeon cross i can't complain. He well be on my wall in just a couple months.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii140/bow_hunter171/funkyduck1.jpg

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii140/bow_hunter171/funkduck2.jpg

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii140/bow_hunter171/funkyduck3.jpg

[Alex Bowe]

nice but i dont think that is a wigeon/mallard. i dont know to much about mixes but it looks like a black/mallard to me

[bmw6415]

thats a black duck mallard cross not a widgeon

[Snowgooseman__SD]

thats a black and a mallard.. the only reason he has that green across his head is because he is a drake mallard.. if anybody didnt know that lol:p

[Adjhunt]

Mallard/Blackduck hybrid. Cool bird! Congrats.

[chase_n_green]

Awsome bird!!! that is sweet!

[J Kryspin]

Mallard x Black Duck cross. Final Answer.

Nice specimen!

[Dwayne Padgett]

I got one yesterday as well. Looks a lot alike.


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/Duckman4ever/IMG_1725.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/Duckman4ever/IMG_1726.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/Duckman4ever/IMG_1724.jpg

[IAsnow goose]

Definitely a mallard/black duck hybrid.

[hardcore dekem]

That is a cool bird!

[Parker Sharpe]

we got one just like that earlier this year....

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/43/picture045ho8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Tylor Johnson]

Those are sweet birds!

[woodiesmacker]

gotta be pretty rare to get a black that far west, let allone a hybird. Ive only shot one hybrid an it was a black/mallard, cool looking birds!

[randy m]

being that you are in colorado, it is probably a mexican/mallard cross. we shoot quite a few of them here in NM. cool bird just the same. congrats.

[J Kryspin]

yea pretty sure parkers is a mallard/wigeon, but the others are mallard/blacks

Pretty sure you're wrong.

Randy has a great point, but still could be a black.

[Ben Fujan]

here is a mallard/widgeon:

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p21/BFUJAN/ConceptMap001.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p21/BFUJAN/ConceptMap002.jpg

[Get Down Cover Up]

I can see my duck being a mallard/mexican but the idea of a mallard/black doesn't really cross a guys mind when you are as far west as i am just as randy said. But i'm not going to toss the idea of it being a mallrd/black. Just one question for you guys any reason the head on this duck seems to look exactly like a widgeon, cause that seems to be a genetic trait in widgeons passed from widegeon to widgeon. Not into mallards, blacks, or mexicans just wondering? Cause that is why i first thought widgeon mallard.

[G_Maxson]

Other than the coincidence of where there green is on the head, I don't see any indication of it having Widgeon.

[J Kryspin]

Other than the coincidence of where there green is on the head, I don't see any indication of it having Widgeon.

Exactly.

Greenwing Teal have a similar green crescent, but you were confident Wigeon?

There's nothing on the bird in question that resembles a wigeon. The bill? The wing? The speculum? The tail? Nothing.

[Teal 101]

Blackxmallard

That wigeonxmallard is one ugly duckling:D

[G_Maxson]

My duck guide in Argentina sent me this pic of his dog. What kind of hybrid would that be?

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii174/gene_maxson/BirdDogPups1.jpg

[Get Down Cover Up]

Krispy settle down there is no reason to get all hot and bothered on this i just ask a simple question. I was just thinking of dominate and Recessive genes and maybe the mallard gene is more dominate than the widgeon and that is why the only trait resembling a widgeon (the head) appeared. Given the location of the harvest of this duck, Black duck nor Mexican duck are the first duck of choice for a cross. Now to assume that the duck I shot is a cross between a breed I have personally never seen in Colorado or even heard of anyone else shooting in Colorado would be fairly foolish .I did however stick to two breeds of duck that I know for a fact use this flyway a Mallard and a Widgeon. If it is foolish of me to assume that the two ducks using the flyway would have a better chance to cross than one species who does and one who doesn’t regularly I apologize .I know this duck is not a Mallard/Widgeon I’m just trying to state that you don’t need to be snide with your replies to a simple question I asked.

[J Kryspin]

Bwahahaha

I'm no where near hot nor bothered.

I'm trying to educate you on why your bird in question has zero wigeon in it.

You never answered my question: Your main trait was the crescent. Don't GWT have the same crescent? Why were you sure it was a wigeon?

See where I'm going...

[Get Down Cover Up]

Lets take a look at why i first thought widgeon instead of green wing teal.

Teal
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii140/bow_hunter171/Green-winged_Teal.jpg

Widgeon
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii140/bow_hunter171/wideon.jpg

My duck
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii140/bow_hunter171/funkduck2.jpg

Now the wideon has a head that is grey and has black speckled in, just as my duck has. Also having a green stripe running down part of his head again same as a wideon. Now the green wing has a red/brown head that doesn't relate to the head of the duck i shot. Does this clear up your confusion as to why i would think widgeon over green wing teal? Again i'm not trying to start any big deal about this i'm just trying to show you why i initially thought Widgeon.

[Robert Manuel]

Ive got one just like that...we dont get any widgeons around here, but we have lots of blacks, so its probaly a Mallard/Black X.

[J Kryspin]

Just missing the white patch on the top of the head?

You see, mallards have a green head. Black ducks have a flecked/flaked head.

[Ryan Kleinschmidt]

Krispy is on a mission!!

[J Kryspin]

Don't even get me started Ryan... :D

[Get Down Cover Up]

Your right it does not have the white on top of its head but not every drake has the white on top its head. I've shot numerous drakes in western colorado that do not have the white. Does every drake mallard have a double curl?

I agree with the fact its a Black/Mallard but lets not stray from your original question of why i would think that its was a widgeon over a gwt. Is there or is there not similar qualities between the widgeon head and the head of the duck i shot?

[Lybeck]

I did a little research on google and here is what I found

MallardXWigeon

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc73/J2thelybeck2007/hybmal03.jpg

MallardXBlack Duck

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc73/J2thelybeck2007/JFK_02.jpg

From what I have seen Hybrids can vary from bird to bird but the differences aren't usually very dramatic. I think what you have is a mallard crossed with another mallard derived bird like a Black Duck,Mexican duck,or mottled duck.

[Teal 101]

Your right it does not have the white on top of its head but not every drake has the white on top its head. I've shot numerous drakes in western colorado that do not have the white. Does every drake mallard have a double curl?

I agree with the fact its a Black/Mallard but lets not stray from your original question of why i would think that its was a widgeon over a gwt. Is there or is there not similar qualities between the widgeon head and the head of the duck i shot?

But you cant base anything of of 1 single trait. its like the brewers duck thread Pitboss started. Everyone said pintail just because the bill had a black streak like a pintails.

Now your doing the same thing here. Basing you theory off of 1 single trait. Does any other part of the duck match a wigeon in any way? White wing patches? Pointy tail?

There's no other tell tale signs of wigeon in the bird. To base the theory of it being a wigeon hybrid off of a single green stripe on the head is foolish.

Now granted you might have more wigeon in your flyway than blacks (;)), but lets make a theory here. The duck you shot is obviously part mallard. Could it be possible the mallards in your flyway also migrate to another flyway with blacks in it? So say a hybrid flew back from the eastern flyway. Now it gets lost in another group of birds and ventures out west. It's happened before with black ducks, why not a hybrid?

But for the original question. Ys it shares one similar trait. The stripe. It shares 3 with a black hybrid. The yellow bill, green stripe, and dark head.

[J Kryspin]

Thanks Teal.

More of an education - sorry if I appeared to come off harsh. Sarcasm may not always come across.

;)

[Get Down Cover Up]

Teal you just mentioned things i already new and brought up in this talk so thank you for bringing up old information.

Krispy you never did answer my question to you, as to weather or not i showed you why one would think widgeon and not teal apon first seeing this duck. To everyone else this question no longer pretains to a black duck it pretains to the similarities in the head of the duck.

This is now starting to get redundent. I'm done

[Capt Jeff - Scaleman]

Here in NJ if it has any black in it it is counted as a black duck in the bag limit.

[J Kryspin]

It looks nothing like a wigeon.

It has a green stripe, so do GWT. The head looks like that of a black duck. The shape is that of a mallard/black duck (which have similar shapes). The bill resembles a mallard/black duck. It has a black stripe through the eye, similar to a black duck. The feathers on the back resemble a black duck (which are close relatives and often interbreed with mallards).

I can guarantee there is no wigeon in that bird.

[J Kryspin]

Here in NJ if it has any black in it it is counted as a black duck in the bag limit.

Another common misconception, as I believe this is not written in any law I've seen.

Federal law states that the only thing that must be attached to the bird if breasted is one complete wing, I believe. If that is the case, this bird counts as a mallard.

[ARKfowlmouth]

Awesome pics guys!!!

[Storm Ockels]

nice bird, i shot one back in '02 that was banded when we were goose hunting in and around our irrigation pond on our property

-Storm Ockels

[ScarySouthernMan]

Ok Ok Ok...


Krispy,

Yup, on point again.

However,

This is where life as a hybrid ID specialist gets trippy...



Here's Scary's go at it... Bare in mind it's a quarter after one here and I've had an entire bottle of Lake Anna wine.

This bird is without question a "Mallardite"... That's a Scary original term right there.

What that means is that it has base genomes of (at least one of) the four Mallard-esque ducks that inhabit North America and I think 8 (or so) different ducks worldwide.

We know this much;

It's not a non-mallardous cross. How? Simple. The bill is identical in size and shape to a normal Mallard and it's of typical "Drake Yellow" solidity. this cancels any probability of another non-Mallard cross (members of the genus Anas as in Anatidae... pick up a Latin course). Now, we can tell this by bill size and color as stated. Mr. get Down & Cover Up did us a service by providing a picture of the birds secondary wing feathers, commonly reffered to as the speculum. Look, gentlemen, at the speculum closely... Closely!

This bird posseses a trait of a hybrid that I have (to date) only read about. From what I understand this cross is a little more frequent in Texas and Mexico than in Colorado. It appears to me, and I'm only human, that it is a Mexican Duck/Mallard Drake hybrid and hear is why...

The answer is in the speculum and in the belly. An American Black Duck has absolutely zero white anywhere in it's upper wing feathers. It's speculum is a deep purple banded on the leading and trailing edges with black... The white Mallard bars are missing altogether. In fact, if you shoot a Black Duck, no matter how obvious it may seem, the presence of white bars in the wing speculum denote a Mallard impurity of some level or another. This is where the entire thing gets a little crazy and hard to follow...

As I mentioned in my last post of a Hybrid Gadwall x Mallard...

A Mallard Duck cannot have offspring with another wild duck and have the that offspring be fertile. That is to say that a Mallard x Pintail, a Mallard x Gadwall, a Mallard x Wigeon or a Mallard x WHATEVER's babies are born like Mules... they are sterile and can't breed. So the genes stop there, at generation #1.

THE ONLY ACCEPTION to this are the other 3 "Mallardites". Those are the American Black Duck, the Florida Mottled Duck and the Mexican Duck. All 4 species (the 3 previous species and the common Mallard) can all breed amongst one another like people at a hippy commune... It just doesn't matter. The gene pools go on and on and you can have Blacks with a 1/32nd Mallard gene in them and a Mallard with a 1/16th Mottled Duck and so on and so forth. 50/50's are the most common and appears to be what Mr. Get Down has killed here. But again, the duck in question raises a concern for me.

There is NO dilution of purple in the speculum... There is a dilution of aqua-green, a Mexican trait. This duck came from CO which means, consistant with everyone's story, is well out of Blackie territory. I shoot hybrid Blacks here like they are going out of style. My kid brother shot a hybrid Black x Mallard as his first band. The certificate even said "Mallard x Black". How the Hell those guys know that when they band 'em as babies, I haven't figured out unless both parents are still present (which I seriously doubt)... But it's true.

I strongly believe this duck to be a Mexican Duck x Mallard Duck cross.




NOW!!!



Since some other pics of some OTHER ducks have been posted, there are OTHER ducks in question... EQUALLY as cool and interesting is ANOTHER misrepresentation of of a Mallard x Black Hybrid...

The first gentlemen (I think he was a staffer... forgive me I'm bad with names and I'm tipsy) to post a pic of his duck, well it was wrong too.

That's a Mottled Duck x Mallard Drake... Look how light in color the belly is and the cut and dry difference of hen Mallard looking plumage to neck seperation is present. No question... Not a Black. I see too many here.

I've never seen a pure Mexican or a pure Mottled in real life other than at a zoo (Mottled). But I spent a rediculous amount of time collect waterfowl ID books from all over the world as a child and feel quite confident that there are not only one, but TWO different hybrids that I'm seeing for the first time here on this thread. This is a POSITIVE thing and not one to be argued. The facts are present if we have the presence of mind to understand them first.

Teal 101,

I really enjoyed what you said on Mr. Coates' last post with the Brewer's Duck, but I must humbly and respectfully disagree with your choice of words here... Yes, indeed you can sometimes differentiate the hybrids by a single present trait... No, not always, but here you can. The absence of an anatomical variation from the Mallard body shape and form is a ringer for NO WIGEON blood. That's a common mistake and one that a lot of people don't understand... If the parents are drastically different (in the case of a Mallard and a Wigeon) the offspring should share the extremities of body shapes and postures... NOT ALWAYS COLORS but SHAPES.


Krispy,

You were oh so close... and indeed correct on the fact that it is most definately NOT a Mallard Wigeon... So in that I'll let the fact that you've once again spoken go. However, this feller here is no Black Duck baby. I'd know him otherwise.




I hope this all helps... Now I'm drunk and i gotta go swing a hammer allday tomorrow. I hope you're all happy...

- Scary

[take'em94]

That looks more like a blackduck/mallard then a widgeon/mallard

[randy m]

GDCU, i have shot 3 or 4 the last couple years that looked like yours. i cannot find a pic of them anywhere. i did find a shot of a drake mexican and then a cross from this season. it's not as good as yours. yours seems to be first generation cross. my pic shows a couple gens down the line i believe. again, way cool when you get one of these. congrats. the first pic is the mexican drake. second from the left.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b341/nm-bound/c8752cb2.jpg

this is the hybrid. sorry, this is the only pic i have that i could find of it.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b341/nm-bound/9ecb673b.jpg

[Teal 101]

Ok Ok Ok...


Krispy,

Yup, on point again.

However,

This is where life as a hybrid ID specialist gets trippy...



Here's Scary's go at it... Bare in mind it's a quarter after one here and I've had an entire bottle of Lake Anna wine.

This bird is without question a "Mallardite"... That's a Scary original term right there.

What that means is that it has base genomes of (at least one of) the four Mallard-esque ducks that inhabit North America and I think 8 (or so) different ducks worldwide.

We know this much;

It's not a non-mallardous cross. How? Simple. The bill is identical in size and shape to a normal Mallard and it's of typical "Drake Yellow" solidity. this cancels any probability of another non-Mallard cross (members of the genus Anas as in Anatidae... pick up a Latin course). Now, we can tell this by bill size and color as stated. Mr. get Down & Cover Up did us a service by providing a picture of the birds secondary wing feathers, commonly reffered to as the speculum. Look, gentlemen, at the speculum closely... Closely!

This bird posseses a trait of a hybrid that I have (to date) only read about. From what I understand this cross is a little more frequent in Texas and Mexico than in Colorado. It appears to me, and I'm only human, that it is a Mexican Duck/Mallard Drake hybrid and hear is why...

The answer is in the speculum and in the belly. An American Black Duck has absolutely zero white anywhere in it's upper wing feathers. It's speculum is a deep purple banded on the leading and trailing edges with black... The white Mallard bars are missing altogether. In fact, if you shoot a Black Duck, no matter how obvious it may seem, the presence of white bars in the wing speculum denote a Mallard impurity of some level or another. This is where the entire thing gets a little crazy and hard to follow...

As I mentioned in my last post of a Hybrid Gadwall x Mallard...

A Mallard Duck cannot have offspring with another wild duck and have the that offspring be fertile. That is to say that a Mallard x Pintail, a Mallard x Gadwall, a Mallard x Wigeon or a Mallard x WHATEVER's babies are born like Mules... they are sterile and can't breed. So the genes stop there, at generation #1.

THE ONLY ACCEPTION to this are the other 3 "Mallardites". Those are the American Black Duck, the Florida Mottled Duck and the Mexican Duck. All 4 species (the 3 previous species and the common Mallard) can all breed amongst one another like people at a hippy commune... It just doesn't matter. The gene pools go on and on and you can have Blacks with a 1/32nd Mallard gene in them and a Mallard with a 1/16th Mottled Duck and so on and so forth. 50/50's are the most common and appears to be what Mr. Get Down has killed here. But again, the duck in question raises a concern for me.

There is NO dilution of purple in the speculum... There is a dilution of aqua-green, a Mexican trait. This duck came from CO which means, consistant with everyone's story, is well out of Blackie territory. I shoot hybrid Blacks here like they are going out of style. My kid brother shot a hybrid Black x Mallard as his first band. The certificate even said "Mallard x Black". How the Hell those guys know that when they band 'em as babies, I haven't figured out unless both parents are still present (which I seriously doubt)... But it's true.

I strongly believe this duck to be a Mexican Duck x Mallard Duck cross.




NOW!!!



Since some other pics of some OTHER ducks have been posted, there are OTHER ducks in question... EQUALLY as cool and interesting is ANOTHER misrepresentation of of a Mallard x Black Hybrid...

The first gentlemen (I think he was a staffer... forgive me I'm bad with names and I'm tipsy) to post a pic of his duck, well it was wrong too.

That's a Mottled Duck x Mallard Drake... Look how light in color the belly is and the cut and dry difference of hen Mallard looking plumage to neck seperation is present. No question... Not a Black. I see too many here.

I've never seen a pure Mexican or a pure Mottled in real life other than at a zoo (Mottled). But I spent a rediculous amount of time collect waterfowl ID books from all over the world as a child and feel quite confident that there are not only one, but TWO different hybrids that I'm seeing for the first time here on this thread. This is a POSITIVE thing and not one to be argued. The facts are present if we have the presence of mind to understand them first.

Teal 101,

I really enjoyed what you said on Mr. Coates' last post with the Brewer's Duck, but I must humbly and respectfully disagree with your choice of words here... Yes, indeed you can sometimes differentiate the hybrids by a single present trait... No, not always, but here you can. The absence of an anatomical variation from the Mallard body shape and form is a ringer for NO WIGEON blood. That's a common mistake and one that a lot of people don't understand... If the parents are drastically different (in the case of a Mallard and a Wigeon) the offspring should share the extremities of body shapes and postures... NOT ALWAYS COLORS but SHAPES.


Krispy,

You were oh so close... and indeed correct on the fact that it is most definately NOT a Mallard Wigeon... So in that I'll let the fact that you've once again spoken go. However, this feller here is no Black Duck baby. I'd know him otherwise.




I hope this all helps... Now I'm drunk and i gotta go swing a hammer allday tomorrow. I hope you're all happy...

- Scary

We need a bow down smiley!

Agreed on the single trait. It's easier to say it's not hybridized with a certain bird by one trait then to say it is hybridized with a certain bird by one trait.

That's what I was trying to get across. I agree 100% on the head shape as a perfect example of one single trait that can rule out hybridization between another bird. But, you cant differentiate between mallard and mallard related species by head shape alone. It's easier to rule out other non mallard like birds by head shape such as wigeon.

Again great info!!!:cool:

[David Rearick]

Ok Ok Ok...

This bird posseses a trait of a hybrid that I have (to date) only read about. From what I understand this cross is a little more frequent in Texas and Mexico than in Colorado. It appears to me, and I'm only human, that it is a Mexican Duck/Mallard Drake hybrid and hear is why...

The first gentlemen (I think he was a staffer... forgive me I'm bad with names and I'm tipsy) to post a pic of his duck, well it was wrong too.

That's a Mottled Duck x Mallard Drake... Look how light in color the belly is and the cut and dry difference of hen Mallard looking plumage to neck seperation is present. No question... Not a Black. I see too many here.

- Scary

Right on both accounts Scary. I have one to post up here hopefully tonight that has me scratching my head a bit. Looks like a mallard, closer to eclipse than anything, but man it has some MallardxBlack or?? characteristics in it. Dark flecked belly into the chest, half green half flecked head. Start of a straight tail curl, hen like tail feathers. To me, I am not sure. Hermaphrodite, some odd balance of blackxmallard,or mallardx? Give the location (on the salt eastern US), I am saying some form of MallardxBlack. It is a cool duck, and unfortunately it got pounded and is no longer mountable. I did however take him home, wash him, and dry him out so I can show it better. (Anal, yes but I am curious to give others the chance to judge it)

[J Kryspin]

Thanks for coming through Scary and setting me straight. Damn Mexicans... Mallards that is.

[duckslayer7]

Mallard/Black that is a good looken bird though.